I have been asked to reconstruct a pretty old redcedar chest for my father. The individual boards are seperating from themselves in places. The corner joints are fine because they are glued and nailed. I am assuming hide glue was used since it is around 70 years old. He remembers it from his grandparent's home and wants it to look how he remembers it. I am probably going to be disassembling it, strip, reglueing, reassamble, and refinish. It was built using cedar off of their farm and it appears they were not very good at jointing the wood since there is quite a bit of filler crumbling out of some joints. I am looking for any tips or suggestions on putting it back together.
jeffreythree
Anybody ever reglued an unglued panel glue up?
Crumbling Filler
Since there are no photos I will ask if the crumbling filler is like a hard crystalline kind of stuff, possibly dark brown or dark yellow? If it is it may be old and hard hide glue.
I'm not sure what you are asking about putting it back together but if you are going to completely disassemble the chest, you can scrape up the old hide glue and apply fresh glue or use a modern glue to reassemble. To soften the old glue for disassembly just pour hot water into the joints and work quickly. The glue will soften enough to work things loose. As the glue cools off again, it will harden.
If you have old hide glue joints that dont have to be taken apart but are a little loose, heating the joint will rejuvenate the old glue.
If it were me, I would just take the whole thing apart, strip it if necesary, clean it up, sand it, make repairs and reglue with modern glue.
I have done stripping and refinishing in the past on a commercial level so I am speaking from experience and not just guessing. Then again, I really didn't quite understand the question.
Tony B
Since there are no photos I will ask if the crumbling filler is like a hard crystalline kind of stuff, possibly dark brown or dark yellow? If it is it may be old and hard hide glue.
I'm not sure what you are asking about putting it back together but if you are going to completely disassemble the chest, you can scrape up the old hide glue and apply fresh glue or use a modern glue to reassemble. To soften the old glue for disassembly just pour hot water into the joints and work quickly. The glue will soften enough to work things loose. As the glue cools off again, it will harden.
If you have old hide glue joints that dont have to be taken apart but are a little loose, heating the joint will rejuvenate the old glue.
If it were me, I would just take the whole thing apart, strip it if necesary, clean it up, sand it, make repairs and reglue with modern glue.
I have done stripping and refinishing in the past on a commercial level so I am speaking from experience and not just guessing. Then again, I really didn't quite understand the question.
Tony B
I don't think it is crumbling hide glue. It appears to be wood putty or some other kind of filler. Where it is crumbling out the joint between 2 boards has failed, probably because the gap was to large for the glue to make solid joint. I have never worked with old hide glue, so I think the heating to get it apart will really help. I will take some pics when i get started on it.
I'm with Tony B on this one. If the object is TRULY an antique, it will have been built with horsehide glue.
The only thing I'd add to Tony's post is that I've found a heat gun (or perhaps a hair dryer, although I've never tried it) to be very effective at loosening up the hide glue.
Unless you're involved in an antique restoration, I'd recommend staying away from re-using horse hide glue. It was good stuff in its time, and still is good stuff in some circumstances, but PVA (white or yellow) glue is much better.
However you decide to tackle this project - have fun, and good luck to you.
The only thing I'd add to Tony's post is that I've found a heat gun (or perhaps a hair dryer, although I've never tried it) to be very effective at loosening up the hide glue.
Unless you're involved in an antique restoration, I'd recommend staying away from re-using horse hide glue. It was good stuff in its time, and still is good stuff in some circumstances, but PVA (white or yellow) glue is much better.
However you decide to tackle this project - have fun, and good luck to you.
If the joints were glued with hide glue they will separate with heat. I would not use water on a joint. Water as such may saturate the joint to the point that some surfaces may swell or deteriorate causing a once fitted joint to change characteristics. I would first try a heat gun. If stubborn, a moist rag and a heat gun. Crumbling around a joint if done with hide glue could be from a poorly fitted joint, or pieces that weren't fitted fast enough allowing the glue to set some prior to the fit. If the joints were done with PVA type glue, heat may or may not loosen them up, but being that old, will usually fail on their own. Disassembling a PVA joint may destroy the fitted edges.
Properly worked hot hide glue will outperform PVA glues. Using the correct "gram strength" for the hot hide glue is important for the intended use. If the joints were done with hide glue, in regluing, new hide glue will reinvent old glue, whereas, PVA's won't.
It's possible that the entire piece, or parts have been repaired since its initial fabrication, and reglued with something other than hide glue. Disassembly should be done as gently as possible as to not altering the fitted edges of the mating pieces of a joint. If nothing else, poorly fitted joints are the major cause of failure. Since there are glued parts coming apart on this piece, that tells you to re-evaluate the existing joints for fit. If in the reassembly, there are gaps or voids, a two part epoxy should be used.
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Properly worked hot hide glue will outperform PVA glues. Using the correct "gram strength" for the hot hide glue is important for the intended use. If the joints were done with hide glue, in regluing, new hide glue will reinvent old glue, whereas, PVA's won't.
It's possible that the entire piece, or parts have been repaired since its initial fabrication, and reglued with something other than hide glue. Disassembly should be done as gently as possible as to not altering the fitted edges of the mating pieces of a joint. If nothing else, poorly fitted joints are the major cause of failure. Since there are glued parts coming apart on this piece, that tells you to re-evaluate the existing joints for fit. If in the reassembly, there are gaps or voids, a two part epoxy should be used.
My older relatives are not into that fancy glue stuff, they just nailed the loose stuff back together with common nails where they could:yes:. This is not a period restoration, just getting it back together as a solid piece to keep for family history.
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